Companies stay silent Too Many Accidents The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. Great job, this threat needed some levity! You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Whether or not the suits have merit. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. Period. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Zero in the affirmative. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. Im more of a DS9 guy. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Was it his fault? Canadian soldier. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. He was told to shoot two rounds. About $300. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. L. LRRifleman . Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Seems a bit apologetic to me. It was expensive. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. But now, P320 is the subject. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Would you? In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Third, Glock has had problems, too. They didnt have to, but did. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. No, it doesnt. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Asking for a friend. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. . Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. . Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. LOL! Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. 00:03. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Folks disagree on brands. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. Dont care for them, not my jam. You arent a gunfighter, either. He was told to shoot two rounds. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Because its flat out bull**it. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). brakes, remember? Anyway around here they do. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Thats the same. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. The problem is non-existent. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? The sear cams it back a teeny bit. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. 1:07. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable.