Clear editor. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. But a rockets can do it. You can post now and register later. Display as a link instead, If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. Planes in Space. Paste as plain text instead, EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. I followed a similar strategy. . Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . My question is really about controllability. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. You cannot paste images directly. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. principle. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange Press J to jump to the feed. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. You could try combining the two. Hello there. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. You arent doing anything wrong. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Display as a link instead, Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. "Whiplash" Turbojet. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. Will post my results. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Your link has been automatically embedded. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. So Pvt. Anyway thanks in advance. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. But. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. Thats my problem right now. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. 20 votes, 21 comments. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Clear editor. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Isn't that backwards snark? The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. However, it seems as if your delta wing has has more area, might that be it? The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. More air is better. They will someday, but they don't now. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? All rights reserved. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. Clear editor. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. Display as a link instead, high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. Very cool. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. 1.) A destructible memorial to the old Mk. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Thanks for the help! Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Cookie Notice The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. 2.) Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. You cannot paste images directly. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. ksp high altitude plane. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. surface of jool. Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. It only takes a minute to sign up. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program