The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. Cookie Notice In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Thank you for such a great article! 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. . REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. 440C steel 14c28n vs D2 Steel. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago Most of these steels rely on particle metallurgy and are therefore more expensive. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. can you strike twice as fast with the knife? It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. The benefit of this, of course, is that the steel holds an edge for a very, very long time. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. 14C28N vs. D2. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. It also improves edge retention and strength. He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. Phone Hours (MST) I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. All rights reserved. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. thanks thats interesting. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. For more information, please see our The material increase machinability and strength. FRN AEB-L D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). S35VN worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. 2. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. So youre right that a D2 blade will cut more CATRA cards than an AEB-L blade *when theyre both sharpened to the same angle* but AEB-L has much better toughness and can therefore handle being sharpened to a more acute angle without chipping, and a more acute angle is more important to continuing cutting ability than wear resistance is. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. grivory Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. Privacy Policy. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. Micarta However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. The critical difference between these two sheets of steel is their corrosion resistance. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. They differ little in composition and treatment. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. Read more. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. n690 I havent tested Sleipner yet. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. All Rights Reserved. Interesting. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. The sharpening makes the knives easy to maintain because they dull faster and require frequent sharpening. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. SUS410 Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. . Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. These images are taken from my book Knife Engineering. How could it be? Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. and our Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. 1.4116 got a 2.5 for toughness and edge retention where as 420HC got a 9 for toughness and a 2.5 for edge retention. This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Conventionally produced steels include AEB-L, A2, 52100, 12C27, 14C28N, and AUS-8/,8Cr13MoV. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. I think they are complementary and you should watch/read both. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. Carpenter produces this powder steel. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. . Tough steel can handle impacts without gross chipping or a tip breaking off. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! ), intended use will give you all the answers. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Approximately the same hardness, yes. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. rust resistance.Best of all most knives made from this steel can be had for well under $75.In my opinion Sandvik 14c28n is a better overall steel than that of Aus8,420hc,or ANY of the . You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? I have a Winkler Knives Recon model in 5160 steel and even though the knife model is ok, the steel is shit. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. Alpha Knife Supply sells 26C3 btw. However,M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all pretty difficult to resharpen, so maintain that edge! Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert.